EP.4: The death of the bravest journalist of Ukraine

00:04:40: Luzia Tschirky Welcome to the podcast, «Yak Ty? Ukraine Live». «Yak Ty?» means how are you in Ukrainian? I'm your host, Luzia Tschirky a former correspondent, now a book author and a freelancer. This is a very special episode of Yak Ty? Ukraine Live Usually this podcast is all about people living in Ukraine, sharing their very personal experience of Russia's war against Ukraine. But this podcast episode is dedicated to someone who can't speak herself anymore, to the Ukrainian journalist, Viktoriia Roshchyna. Viktoriia Roshchyna was a Ukrainian journalist. She was detained by Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine on territory that is occupied by Russian forces. She was detained twice in Eastern Ukraine, first in spring 2022 and second in August 2023. Her death was announced to her family on the 10th of October 2024, two weeks prior to this podcast recording. She died on the 19th of September while being in Russian captivity. Her death was only three weeks after announced to her family by the Russian Ministry of Defense. The Russian authorities did not name a cause of death. The body of Viktoriia Roshchyna is still in Russia while I'm recording this podcast episode. It's unclear when her body will be returned to Ukraine as part of the exchange between Ukraine and Russia. While the official cause of death might be unknown for the near future, it's already clear who is ultimately responsible for her death, the people who held her captive. Viktoriia was held captive for one reason alone, her work as a journalist. I had the opportunity to talk to the editor-in-chief of Ukrainska Pravda, Sevgil Musaieva. Ukrainska Pravda is the leading online newspaper in Ukraine. I hope for your understanding that Sevgil Musaieva is very busy and she has a very tight schedule and she was attending a conference while we were recording this podcast episode. So I hope for your understanding that the podcast audio quality could be better. This podcast episode is dedicated to Viktoriia Roshchyna, a Ukrainian journalist who died while she was in Russian captivity. My name is Luzia Tschirky and you're listening to Yak ty? Ukraine Live.

03:06:15: Sevgil Musaieva: Hi, can you hear me now?

03:08:27: Luzia Tschirky: Yes, I can hear you.

03:09:42: Sevgil Musaieva: Sorry for being late. Another crazy day. Sorry.

03:20:00: Luzia Tschirky: No need to apologize at all. I'm very happy that you have time for joining me on this podcast. So please welcome to the podcast, Sevgil Musaieva, editor-in-chief at Ukrainska Pravda, the leading online newspaper of Ukraine. Thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your memories today with us of Viktoriia Roshchyna. Sevgil, Viktoriia Roshchyna worked for your publication, Ukrainska Pravda, among others. How would you describe Viktoriia to someone who never met her?

03:49:18: Sevgil Musaieva: Thank you for this question. Viktoriia was one of the most bravest journalists I met in my career. She was 27 and she has a mission, she had a mission to cover the life of Ukrainians in occupied territories. And it was her goal. And she was the only one reporter who covered occupied territories of Ukraine. And so many times we have discussions that, Vika, you have to stop doing that because it's very dangerous. You already were captured by Russians in 2022. But for her it was inappropriate not to cover that, not to go. And I think that it was also about her humanity because she was obsessed with people who decided to stay in the occupation and she wanted to know what they faced with which obstacles, with which challenges, how actually Russia also commits a human rights violation in occupied territories. So she covered a lot of important issues in the occupied territories and for her, it was a goal, it was her mission. And I'm very proud that we had this cooperation with her in this topic. She was our freelancer and she worked for other media as well covering occupied territories, but last her stories were published by other media.

05:33:38: Luzia Tschirky: Could you describe to someone who is not so familiar with the situation in Ukraine, what were the reasons that she was the only Ukrainian journalist reporting from the territories that are currently occupied by Russian forces?

05:45:39: Sevgil Musaieva: Yes, you know, Russia started the occupation in 2014 and then continued the occupation in 2022. And we lost an opportunity to go to these territories in 2022. I mean, first of all, all territories who were seized by Russia in February 2024 or March or spring 2024. First of all, the Zaporizhzhia region, such cities as Melitopol, as Mariupol, as Berdyansk, and also Viktoriia traveled to occupied Crimea and occupied Donetsk to cover how actually the life of people changed after the occupation in 2014 and how they maintain the life in new obstacles. Why it's so difficult? Because Russia arrested journalists, Russia targeted journalists who cover some critical and sensitive topics for her. First of all, the violation of human rights and Viktoriia did a great job with investigation, for example, about deportation of kids. She published this investigation in our media. So we published this investigation in our media. And Viktoriia discovered many camps in occupied territories of Ukraine and in Russia, actually in which in these camps, all these children were deported and she acknowledged all people who committed this kind of crime. So that's why, of course, she was a target, I will say, and actually the difficulty of this war and the risk of this war is absolutely understandable from 2022 when she was first time captured by Russian forces and spent 10 days in Russian captivity and actually we did everything possible to release her.

07:53:17: Luzia Tschirky: What would you say, what motivated Viktoriia to pursue her work so determinedly?

08:00:08: Sevgil Musaieva: You know, I think that for her it was important and we had many discussions about that issue. She told me that for her it was important because she was the only one journalist who covered that. And she told me that she needs to go to occupied territories because it's important because she takes care of people. She wants to cover the stories and she wants to tell the truth about the conditions in which Ukrainians live in occupation. Once, one more time, I will repeat that it was definitely about her humanity and about importance of this war, because this war also not about territories. It's not about territories. This is about values. And I think Viktoriia protected these values, values of humanity, values of freedom of speech. So even in these terrible conditions, she was able to continue to providing the information for her readers about the life of Ukrainians. And actually this is something we miss in Ukrainian media now so much because as I mentioned, we don't have an access to this territory. It's extremely heavy to go there. It's dangerous. for, but for people who continue to continue to be interested in what's going on in these territories. It was extremely important. Her work was extremely important and of course received so many positive feedback when she reported about the life of Ukrainians.

09:49:15: Luzia Tschirky: So far, no cause of death has been officially confirmed yet. Why is it clear for you that Viktoriia Roshchyna was killed by Russian occupying forces? You know, why is it?

10:01:00: Sevgil Musaieva: Her father has received a letter from the Ministry of Defense. This is the only evidence we had from Russian sides. And actually, our Ombudsman office also confirmed the death of Viktoriia Roshchyna. They also received an official statement. But today, United Nations asked the Russian authorities to confirm it publicly and to confirm it officially, on official level, because still we have only this letter from a Ministry of Defense that was signed by someone with a surname Koch that Viktoriia Roshchyna died. We don't know now about any conditions, any reasons why she died. Actually, she had a status which calls incommunicado. What does it mean? So she didn't receive any accusations, official accusations from Russian side. They literally detained her more than for one year without any official accusations, which is absolutely illegal and inappropriate. And I think this is a big violation of human rights and international humanitarian law because she didn't have an access to any lawyers. She didn't have an access to relatives. She didn't have access to medical supplement, for example, or like any, any help or any assistance from this side. Actually, Russia confirmed that she's in prison, but they didn't tell us where. Actually, only on May 2024, which is also inappropriate. Yes.

11:45:44: Luzia Tschirky: What is known to you about the circumstances? How did she end up in Russian captivity? What do you know about that?

11:52:17: Sevgil Musaieva: Actually, we are still trying to understand that. We have some information from women who were in the same prison with her and were released. I'm not sure that I can share now this information. But what we know that she spent time from August to spring 2024 in Melitopol. She was in jail in Melitopol and we know which exactly jail. And then they moved her to Taganrog (in Russia). And then when she appeared in Taganrog prison (in Russia), it actually was a confirmation from Russian side that she was captured. Before, we had no idea about where she is and in which condition she is. But even with all requests, we sent to the Russian side.

12:53:49: Luzia Tschirky: Can you, sorry, I'm sorry for interrupting you, you know, like, can you explain like to people who are listening to this podcast, and they are might not so familiar with the situation. Can you explain for them how is it possible, you know, that someone is detained for so long and there is no information and by even international organizations like the ICRC cannot help. Can you explain?

13:12:37: Sevgil Musaieva: Yes, yes. This is typical Russian behavior. We have a lot of people with the same status as Viktoriia had, which is incommunicado. So Russia just detained these people without any official accusations and they just, will say that this is kind of absolutely illegal. Even just because those people, don't have an access for any rights. And even in most terrible regimes now in the world, you still have an access to the lawyers, you still have an access to the international organizations, but in case of Viktoriia Roshchyna, she didn't have the success for more than one year. The only one contact was in August 2024 when her dad had an opportunity to talk with her first time since she was captured in August 2023. So more than one year without any acknowledgments about where she is in which prison, in which city, in which actually even country or place. So this is terrible, but I want to pay your attention that the same statues have thousands and hundreds of Ukrainian civilians. And what else I want to add that all civilians from Ukrainian side who were captured in these occupied territories, they have to be, they need to be released. First of all, released. We are not talking about exchanging the people because we can exchange the prisoners of war, but we cannot exchange civilians without any even accusations, official accusations. So it wasn't about a crime. So they just detained her and they kept her in the prison for more than one year without any official accusations and that she committed a crime or so. She was reporting the stories. She had her professional goal to go there.

15:46:03: Luzia Tschirky: When you talked with her about the risks that she's facing when she's traveling there, what was her response when you told her it's very dangerous to go there and you might risk your life? were the replies of Viktoriia?

15:58:49: Sevgil Musaieva: So yes, we had this discussion many times and she actually did the same with other editorial rooms, not only with ours, with other editorial room. So she was 100 % sure that this is her mission and she had to go. And she didn't listen to any editors, she didn't listen to any suggestions that it could be dangerous and you have to stop doing that.

16:33:16: Luzia Tschirky: You mentioned the place where she was detained in Russia, in Taganrog. What do you know about the conditions in this place? What did other Ukrainian soldiers or civilians who were kept there tell?

16:47:04: Sevgil Musaieva: It's very important. The conditions in Taganrog are terrible. We received these evidences from many, many people who were in this prison, who were released actually. We also have some information from Russian lawyers who helped to protect our Ukrainian people in this Russian prison. What they told us that they have systematic tortures inside the prison, not against women, but against men. Can hear me?

17:26:01: Luzia Tschirky: We can't hear Sevgil anymore. There seems to be a problem with the connection. I hope that is going to be resumed soon. She is joining us besides a conference, so she's actually attending important meetings like a conference and I hope the connection will be back very soon.

17:53:15: Sevgil Musaieva: Can you hear me now? So the question was... The question was about the prison in Taganrog. So we received many witnesses from people who were in this prison that people face in this prison with systematic tortures, with systematic violations of human rights. Usually we are talking not about women, we are talking about men, not women. So we have a conversation with some women who were released. They told us that they heard kind of the sounds of tortures, usually there were sounds from men, not women. So they didn't use force and they didn't use tortures against women, but against men, yes, they used it. This is the first one. The second one, the woman I talk with told me that the food was terrible. And actually, last month, they gave to this woman a potato that was already in bad conditions. So the food was terrible. What they told me that, yes, the food was terrible.

19:22:43: Luzia Tschirky: What you just said, that women who shared their experience in Taganrog told, that they were not tortured or that men were more likely subjected to torture. Would you consider Viktoriia's death a new level of brutality towards Ukraine that Ukrainian journalists are now, even female ones, are killed in captivity?

19:45:26: Sevgil Musaieva: I don't know exactly. So we are now trying to find any information about it. What we know from her father is that she actually announced a hunger strike in August. And actually, the call from her father in the end of August was about stop the hunger strike. So we don't know what happened after that. So after August, we don't have any information. We know that on 7th of September, she was released from this prison. And actually we were waiting for her in exchange that took place on the 13th of September, but she didn't appear in this exchange. What happened between 7th of September and 19th of September when actually the official date of her death, we don't know.

20:51:08: Luzia Tschirky: Viktoriia was traveling to the occupied territories without a specific assignment. You consider that she was not affiliated with a certain news outlet in Ukraine. Made it that easier for her or was it on the contrary more dangerous for her to travel there without having signed a contract with a news outlet in Ukraine?

21:14:01: Sevgil Musaieva: This is a hard question actually because she never shared with us the way how she traveled to the occupied territories. I think for her it was important to stay anonymous in these territories. So that's why, of course, yeah, because it would be dangerous to be a journalist officially in these territories if you're not kind of a Russian propagandist. So maybe for her it was better to use anonymity and that she didn't have any official assignment from any editor.

21:58:32: Luzia Tschirky: At the very moment there are 29 other Ukrainian journalists detained by Russia currently. I assume that you as an editor-in-chief of a Ukrainian news outlet, are faced many times with questions from your reporters that you're responsible directly for, whether they can travel somewhere, whether they can report from a certain place. How is that for you personally to decide or to be within these discussions, where you can send your reporters and where it is too dangerous? Can you share a little bit of insight on that?

22:28:36: Sevgil Musaieva: Journalists could be a target in any territories in Ukraine. For example, more than one month ago, the Reuters team was targeted by Russians, Russian army in the city of Kramatorsk, and one of security guys died in this missile attack. and actually Russian propagandists then confirmed that they were a target. So what we have in our safety security norms, we don't stay in any hotels and we travel to some kind of front lines with presence of military forces, of course. We don't travel alone. So we have people from military forces who help ua and of course any travel to occupied territories will be great because it's dangerous.

23:38:49: Luzia Tschirky: So you would never allow someone from your team, from the reporters you were responsible for, employees, you won't allow them to travel?

23:49:30: Sevgil Musaieva: No never. No, it's dangerous and actually we don't have an opportunity even to travel to these territories because you have to cross the Russian border and if you're crossing the Russian border, yeah, it could be difficult.

24:04:22: Luzia Tschirky: What can be done at the very moment to support Ukrainian journalists and their cause. What can be done?

24:11:31: Sevgil Musaieva: As you mentioned, we have 28 journalists now in Russian prisons and we have to do everything possible. I mean international community and international human rights organizations. First of all, journalists organization. We have to do everything possible to release these people. And I'm talking about releasing the people because they are civilians. They have a special status as a journalist. They didn't commit any crimes because journalism is not a crime. They just were trying to provide accurate information about what is going on in these territories or helping the people. And we are not speaking about exchanging process because they are not prisoners of war. We have to release these people and even if it could be difficult, still I just want to pay an attention of different international organizations to visit these people, to understand in which condition they are now. For example, Red Cross has to visit, and Red Cross has to send many requests to the Russian side with questions where people, where those people are, in which prisons, and to understand in which condition they are.

25:33:29: Luzia Tschirky: Thank you so much, Sevgil for joining us today.

25:36:47: Sevgil Musaieva: Thank you, thank you. Sorry, that it looks a little bit too fast, but yes, I have a very difficult schedule these days and I'm traveling and, you know...

25:52:46: Luzia Tschirky: Now you're in London, okay. And you're traveling further too?

25:56:18: Sevgil Musaieva: I'm traveling back to Poland. I'll be in Warsaw tonight and then tomorrow I'm traveling back to Ukraine.

26:03:46: Luzia Tschirky: I wish you a safe travel back home. Thank you so much. Bye.

26:08:30: Sevgil Musaieva: Thank you. Bye.